Interview: Tanith Lee
By Darrell Schweitzer
Tanith Lee is the author of “Our Lady in Scarlet” in the August 2009 issue of Realms of Fantasy. She is the author of The Birthgrave, the Flat Earth series, Dark Dance, Don’t Bite the Sun, Heart Beast, and others, more than eighty books in all, plus numerous short stories. Among her awards are two World Fantasy Awards for best short fiction (1983, 1984) plus eight more nominations; and a British Fantasy Award for Best Novel in 1980 for Death’s Master plus five more nominations.
Q: So, would you tell the readers something about the background of this story, “Our Lady in Scarlet,” and how it came to be written?
Lee: In my late twenties something I can’t specifically recall, made me seek to learn more of one of the most terrible plagues, the Black Death of 1347. (I later wrote my third radio play from that interest/research: Death is King, broadcast by the BBC in 1979). Subsequently accounts of other outbreaks of this plague, particularly those in the 16th century, seem to turn up in my viewing and reading life, and from one of those I learned that the colour red was thought to be an amulet against infection. This bizarre notion stayed with me for years, and only finally resolved itself in my head, complete with a title, in 2008. The plot was all there for me however in that title, and the student hero with it. This story was written in just over a day.
Q: A curious notion, that red protects you from infection. It seems counter-intuitive, red being the color of blood. I can’t help but think of Poe’s “The Masque of the Red Death.” Did that occur to you too?
Lee: Yes, it did. However black is more associated with this type of plague (Black Death) – for various unpleasant reasons to do with the swellings and emissions of those afflicted. The aspect of red seems to be lifeblood, that is healthy blood. But red of course is also a power colour, sometimes connected to angels. Additionally, in the East, red may carry various positive connotations ( As in Feng Shui ).
Q: You’ve published almost as many novels as shorter pieces. What comes more naturally to you, short stories or novels?
Lee: Both. The only truly significant difference for me is that, with a novel, generally I can have a longer stay there. On the other hand I’ve written a couple of novels in under two weeks, and the occasional – very long or very complex, or very interrupted – short over as much as a month.
Q: Don’t you think that a short story requires a kind of compression that a novel does not? ARE there technical differences between the two, other than length? I encountered the claim once that if you take a short story and turn it into the first chapter of a novel, you have to (even if you alter nothing) effectively change the meaning of every last word, because the short story points toward closure at the end and the novel chapter has to open out into the book. Have you done much expansion of shorter work into novels?
Lee: You’re probably right about the differences between short and long fiction. But as I’ve said before, elsewhere, I never know, technically, what I’m doing, or not till I’ve finished it. This isn’t me being evasive or ‘coy’ – I really don’t. Unless, and this is rare, I really plan a structure beforehand in order to experience some off-kilter schematic. But even then the characters take over and much changes. Frankly too I’ve read some short stories that might easily be the first or even somewhere-in-the-middle chapters of a novel – Katherine Mansfield comes to mind – and some short stories that are miniature novels – for example Joseph Roth’s Legend of the Holy Drinker ( actually published as a novella). There are also examples I recall with Fritz Leiber. Not to mention the extraordinary Ted Hughes’s book, Birthday Letters, which to my mind is harrowing, grieving, melodious example of an auto/biography, whose chapters are told in genius poems.
As for myself – the first 3 chapters of my fantasy-historical-horror novel Elephantasm (1993) were originally a short story, complete with the ‘end’ they still have, (an execution). While my short fantasy story The Demoness (1970’s) was begun as a novel. Oh, and the unfinished Scarabae series, especially books 2 and 3, have several chapters that almost really are short stories, yet stay part of the novels. A short story recently published, Meanwhile: Scarabesque, is due to be part of the 4th Scarabae novel – Darker Ages – if ever anyone wants it, or I have space to write it anyway.
Q: Does the market these days let you do what you want? Are you able to write and sell the novels you want too?
Lee: Until fairly recently the ‘market’ did let me do just that. In the beginning I seldom even had to offer a synopsis or proposal, either. As I hardly ever work from a synopsis – I find they act like chains, besides anyway not often knowing where exactly the book will go until I am writing it – the earlier state was a happier one. But I did my best when a synopsis of some sort began always to be required, only adding a note to the effect that some things might change during production!
Now though most of the so-called big publishers are unwilling even to look at a proposal. They aren’t interested in seeing anything from me, not even those houses I’ve worked with for many years. Where any slight interest in my turning in a book exists, I find I must work inside certain defined formulae. And to me that’s one of the arch inspiration-stranglers. I have at this time no new book, adult or Y.A, either out or due to come out, let alone any contract to produce a book for any of the main companies. And besides that only a couple of things are scheduled to appear from small, if reputable and elegant houses.
I must add, that doesn’t stop me actually writing. Writing is one of the most important things in my life. I have, so far, a cupboard stocked with 3 completed never published novels – contemporary, horror, 2 short (original) story collections, and proposals for 4 books, 2 of them adult fantasies. I’m just now finishing another novel.
Which means I have, largely, been returned to the darker element of my 20’s, when The Birthgrave, The Storm Lord, Don’t Bite the Sun and Eva Fairdeath were stacked in a box in my bedroom, unwanted, rejected and indeed – in the case of some publishers – insulted. It was hard enough then. But I’m in my 60’s now. I don’t have time to wait.
Q: How does an established writer like yourself account for this lack of interest? It is true that book sales are reportedly down about 20% this year. Is it all just bottom-line calculations? It’s too easy for any of us to conclude that only junk sells, or the editors and publishers are stupid. We know a lot of them, and we know perfectly well they are not. So what do you think is going on here?
Lee: A ‘writer like me’ has always, intermittently, encountered exactly just this type of ‘lack of interest’. Luckily for me, once I’d finally gotten published, though it effected things occasionally, there were always more doors flying open on Welcome! Signs. But that, as they say, was then…
Yes, I can only conclude (without knowing any figures) that a lot of this is financial. I have had people say to me, ‘we would like to publish this, but though it would sell, it wouldn’t sell enough. And so They won’t let us buy it.’ And no, of course, most of us, (me included) know editors and actual publishers we like and respect, and who still publish some top rate stuff (thank God). But also there is a definite aggrandizement of ‘inferior’ material, that is then hyped and so becomes a best-seller. Or worse – material written (even by ghosts) by so-called celebrities (I exclude here true celebrities, e.g. justly popular actors, artists, surgeons, athletes etc. ) which are loved apparently by the (also) so-called masses. There’s nothing inherently wrong in that. People should be able to read what they like. Also it will cream in lots of money (presumably) for the houses that dish it out. Where it is wrong is where said houses will not also publish good writing for people who prefer to read that. Fortunately there are some authors of such estimable genuine genius, who justifiably have shot to the tops of trees and stay there – still published, still a feast for anyone who can buy or library-borrow a book. There is a lot of hope in that, at least for us readers. But for us writers who are just not that gold standard, (and neither to the sub-standard either) we find ourselves caught in the middle, and then jettisoned.
I have had quietly phenomenal sales, now and then. And I have had mountains of mail in favour of my work (always a joy) and here and there queries asking me – or presumably my representatives – if I have died, since no books of mine are now being published. Publishing almost certainly will pull round in the end. Then there will be a demand for talent right across the spectrum. But for some of us, both old and young, it will be too late.
Q: What you are describing is the tyranny of the corporate Suits, who tell editors what they can buy on the basis of projected sales. I think what happened is that as soon as there got to be science fiction, fantasy, and horror bestsellers, these categories lost their innocence. It had previously been assumed that any category book would sell about as well as any other, probably on the basis of the cover, so it didn’t much matter what was actually in the books. This gave the editors considerable freedom, which they no longer have. Who could imagine an R.A. Lafferty book in mass-market paperback today? They used to be common enough. Now that the corporate owners know that SF/fantasy/horror bestsellers are possible, they want everything to be Dune or Stephen King. They divide their list up into bestsellers and failed bestsellers, and eliminate the latter. Would you agree?
Lee: What you say is probably true. It sounds clinically dry and heart-soulless enough it would fit the general feel of things as now they are. But I never really know what goes on inside the publishing machine. Only what it produces, or fails to produce.
Q: Do you think the small presses can take up some of the slack, particularly for the more individualistic stuff? I was remarking to you on how Tachyon Press publishes Peter Beagle and Brian Aldiss these days, because, apparently, the major New York publishers are no longer interested. My feeling is that the NY publishers are playing it too safe and losing a lot of their readers.
Lee: My own feeling is that salvation very likely lies with these small presses, many of whom are marvelous, intelligent, and eager to put good stuff into print. I draw a lot of comfort from their existence, especially for new young talent which otherwise might be trodden underfoot. Will brave small Davids become the (Benign) Goliaths of tomorrow? Mighty oaks etc:-
Q: If you had to, in order to make a living, would you consider reinventing yourself in another genre, such as crime/suspense?
Lee: I’ve already written contemporary novels (5), detective fiction, (one, so far) and Lesbian novels and collections under the unhidden by line: Tanith Lee writing as Esther Garber. Some of these were published by a small press in England, and got good reviews in such as Locus, and The Guardian in the UK. The royalties were pretty good too, before the publishers went bust. So I do ‘reinvent’ my stuff, at least genre-wise, anyway. I’ve written an historical novel too – French Revolution, published by Overlook years ago. I am a beast of many colours. But right now it makes no difference with publishers. I just enjoy doing it.
Q: Thank you, Tanith.
